Ashley's Atrium

Debate Vs. Argument Vs. Fighting

So some of you may know that I'm in a relatively new relationship.  My boyfriend Joel Bruce is great.  He makes me happy, he makes me feel good, he makes me smile, all that good stuff.  There's just one problem.  He's an Atheist.  Now that isn't, or wouldn't be a problem in and of itself.  I've dated Atheists before, many of my closest friends and family members are Atheist, it isn't a problem for me.  Or wasn't until now.

Like I said, my relationship with my Joel is great, or would be, if it weren't for that one thing.  Why is it a problem?  Because we make it a problem.  We're both intelligent, passionate, and stubborn.  We're set in our beliefs, and neither one is willing to compromise.  The question is, should we?

For those of you who aren't aware, I'm a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, aka Mormon.  I've always believed in what are referred to as "The Articles of Faith" (see: http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1.11).  I've always especially been fond of the 11th Article of Faith which states: "11 We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."  I truly, and with all my heart believe that, and in doing so, I also respect people's beliefs, non-beliefs, etc.  I respect people religions, spiritualities, or lack thereof.  Again, I believe in letting people "worship how, where, or what they may."  So I'm good where I am, with what I know to be true (why I know it to be true is another long story for another day, but I'll elaborate if asked to do so), and I'm good with my boyfriend being an Atheist.  So the question is, why does is cause such turmoil in our relationship?

I have some ideas as to why, and I'd like to elaborate my ideas, or hypothesis' now.

First, the problem with me (or is it just a problem with me, for my boyfriend?) is that I'm an emotional person.  When I get into a heated debate or conversation, if I'm honestly open with that person, I wear my heart on my sleeve, so to speak.  Sometimes I get upset, sometimes my buttons get pushed, sometimes I get sad, sometimes I cry.  This is a problem for my boyfriend.  He doesn't seem to be able to handle my emotions, even though he expects me to handle his.  That's a problem.  I feel like I allow him to have his feelings and emotions, but I feel that I'm not allowed to do the same.  That's problem number one.

Second, the problem we have is that my boyfriend is very logical, rational, and scientific in his thinking.  The problem lies in that in a theological debate, and in matters of God, things aren't always what we currently understand to be logical, rational, or scientific (even though I believe they are, and that we just don't understand them, or don't yet have the capacity to understand such things).  My boyfriend wants scientific proof of God, proof via the scientific method (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method).  The thing is, if God could be proven to exist, we wouldn't need to be here.  We're here to test our faith (see: http://mormon.org/beliefs/plan-of-salvation), and if God gave us all the answers to the test of this lifetime, what would be the point of our being here?  There wouldn't be one.  The purpose of this life would be null and void.  So can the existence of God be proven?  I believe so, but I believe that we're not meant to find out that "proof" until we've, well, passed the test, as it were.

The next problem is, that about once a week or so, we get into some sort of existential debate, which most often turns into an argument, which turns into a fight.  Then we start slinging accusations and blame at one another, until the next thing you know, hours have gone by, and we're both emotionally exhausted, and broken.

Why does it have to be this way?  I don't want it to be this way.  I don't think my boyfriend wants it to be this way.  So why is it?  My boyfriend has often accused me of "thriving on drama".  He's not the first one that's accused me of such.  So I don't know, perhaps I do?  I don't mean to, I don't want to.  By no means is it an excuse, but I do suffer from mental illnesses, including Bi-Polar Disorder NOS (Not Otherwise Specified [meaning I don't fit into type one or type two]).  I've had this illness, which involves clinical chronic depression, for most of my life.  It's controlled (for the most part) by medication and therapy.  For the most part, considering what I've been through (a boat load of more stories, for another time), I would say I do pretty good.  I'm very high functioning, and for the most part a happy person.  I've especially been happy lately, particularly since I met my boyfriend, and those that are close to me have noticed this as well.  Now my boyfriend, on the other hand, says that he wants someone that will take away from and relieve his stress, not someone that adds to it (which apparently I do, a lot).  Personally I try to focus on the 99% of the time that we have together that is good, whereas he seems to focus on that 1% of the time where things aren't very good at all.  Now I understand that this is human nature, that most people remember and focus on negative events over positive ones (they seem to make a deeper impression in our minds), so I understand why he does this.  I just want him to stop focusing on the negative, and focus on the positive.

I think perhaps it all boils down to a communication problem.  We both accuse one another of not listening to the other.  I've come to realize that I don't think this is actually the case, that we are listening to each other, we're just not focusing on the things that the other person wants the other to focus on, and it seems like we're not listening to each other because of that.

So how can we remedy this situation?  Because it needs to be remedied.  It's gotten so bad, that we've almost lost one another because of it, and I, for one, don't want that to happen.

Now as I said, my boyfriend is a very logical and scientific-minded person.  He tagge me in this "Debate Flow Chart" on Facebook the other day, and I "liked" it, and he took that for me agreeing to "debate" following those rules.  The problem is, when the time came for another theological discussion, I didn't have the flow chart in front of me, and apparently didn't follow the rules.  But then again, should I HAVE to follow any rules when it comes to conversing with my boyfriend?  Should I?  I don't know.  Take a look at the flow chart, and see what you think:

Now on most occasions, and for most topics, I would agree with this flow chart, and how it works.  The problem is, when it comes to certain things, I just can't follow those rules.  Theological matters are one of those things.  At the first part of the flow chart is where I get stuck.  It says, "Can you envision anything that will change your mind on this topic?"  The thing is, my answer, if I'm being honest, is no.  That leads to the rule on the flow chart that says, "This is not a discussion. I will not talk to you about this topic.".  Now is this fair?  I don't think so.  I think we can still have a discussion even if I can't envision anything changing my mind regarding the topic.  And for the most part, in the past, we have continued the discussion anyway, which then leads to debating, arguing, fighting, etc.  So lately I've noticed that my boyfriend has been avoiding such conversations, perhaps in effort to avoid confrontation.  The problem is, he still continues to bring up subjects, then I want to talk about them, but he refuses to.  Case in point, the other day my boyfriend tagged me in a post containing this article (http://www.salon.com/2012/06/01/but_im_a_good_mormon_wife/), "But I'm a Good Mormon Wife".  He didn't make any comments about it, but since he tagged me in it, I figured he wanted me to comment, so I did.  This is what I said in reply to the article:

I'm sad when I hear stories like this.  Don't people realize that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is God's Church, NOT Joseph Smith's Church?  Even if what anti-Mormon media says about Joseph Smith is true, don't people realize he was HUMAN, and as such, a fallible being?  The only thing he, as Joseph Smith, The Prophet?, and President of the Church couldn't do was lead the entire Church astray.  That's all that God said.  He didn't say he was perfect, infallible, unable to be corrupted.  In fact, it says in the scriptures that were a Prophet to lead the Church astray, He would be taken from the Earth.  Maybe that's why Joseph Smith died?  I don't know.  However, that said, I still don't believe what I know to be  lies about Joseph Smith, or the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.  I would encourage people to learn both sides of the story, instead of just one, and then earnestly pray with a sincere want for knowledge and ask God if it's true or not.  A lot of the information in this article is incorrect, and subjective, not objective.  It's a personal story, by a person (again, people are fallible, corruptible, imperfect, and all that).  There's some things that she talked about as though it was Church Doctrine, that isn't.  That God should come before your spouse?  Actually, as far as I've always been taught in the Church, it's the exact opposite.  As for the Urim and Thummim being a stone in a hat?  What, has she been watching South Park?  It even describes here, in Extracts from the History of Joseph Smith, the Prophet http://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/js-h/1.35?lang=eng#34 exactly what the Urim and Thummim are..."35 Also, that there were two stones in silver bows—and these stones, fastened to a breastplate, constituted what is called the Urim and Thummim—deposited with the plates; and the possession and use of these stones were what constituted “seers” in ancient or former times; and that God had prepared them for the purpose of translating the book." Nowhere does it talk about a stone in a hat.  So that point right there tells me that the author of this article is misinformed.  Anyway, I could go on, and will, if anyone would like me to, but I think I've gotten my point across.  This blog entry is just that, a blog entry, a personal story, etc.  It doesn't make it true, objective, or right.

Later that night I was talking to my boyfriend online and I said, "So you never replied to my reply about the article you posted."  "What article?," he asked.  "The one about being a "Good Mormon Wife", I replied.  "I don't want to talk about it," he said.  Now this upset me.  Here he had clearly been the one this time (we've argued over who started the conversation in the first place many times), and now here he was refusing to talk about it.  This didn't seem fair to me, or right, and so of course it upset me, and I got a bit confrontational with him.  Once again, it turned into a fight, and it wasn't pretty.  I accused him of not being willing to follow his own rules, but forcing me into it, and he accused me (once again) of thriving on drama, and needing help.  That of course didn't go over well, with either of us.

Eventually I gave up trying to get him to talk about it, and tried my best to smooth things over.  But the tension, even though we were online, was palpable.

Things have gotten better since then, and we haven't gotten into a fight since, but things are still strained.  I'm trying my best to make it work, I even posted the following "10 Commandments of Rational Debate" to him, as a sign that I was willing to follow such rules:


So the questions I have now are, where do we go from here? How do we fix this problem?  Can it be fixed?  Are we willing to change or compromise regarding this subject?

Anyway, if anyone has any insights, suggestions, or words of wisdom, I could really use them right now.  Even if you just tell me what you think about the situation, I would appreciate it.  I don't want to lose my boyfriend.  I love him, and I want him in my life.  So what can we do to resolve these issues?  Thank you for any insight or knowledge you can provide me with.  That's all for now...until next time, I hope all this finds all of you well.

Kindest Regards,
Ashley

We also both love music (he plays the drums), and has a great singing voice (I don't know that he knows, but I love listening to him when he sings).  We're both totally OCD (I think he keeps me around for my tissues and hand sanitizer, which I never leave home without LOL).  He's a complete gentleman, and always compliments me on the way he likes the way I do my makeup, or what I wear, etc.  He's so sweet!  He's also very chivalrous, opening doors for me and such (which I absolutely adore).

So I think I'm going to start blogging again.  I used to do it quite a bit, and have always found it quite cathartic.  I've always written in journals and blogs for myself, but for other people as well.  I guess I have hope that someone wants to hear my stories, or that people are interested in my life, my opinions, etc.  So I wonder who will read this?  If you do, I'd love to hear your thoughts and opinions regarding my post (good, bad, whatever, as long as it's the truth), so please feel free to respond if you so desire!


I've always loved the written word.  I love reading (I'm a professed bibliophile), and love storytelling (which I've finally done professionally, yay!)  I also love to write.  In fact, in college, before I dropped out, I was in the process of becoming an English/Writing major.  So that tells you how much I love to write.  Whether I'm any good at it or not, well, that remains to be seen.  LOL.  

Anyway, I've also had a lot on my mind lately, and sometimes it's easier for me to express things via the written word rather than verbally communicating them.  So it's my hope that perhaps I can express my various thoughts, emotions, feelings, opinions, etc. here, in hopes that others might understand them better.  Again, how successful that will be remains to be seen.  My fear is that if I get too personal, that I might upset people involved in whatever I happen to be writing about.  If that does happen, please let me know, and I'll be happy to edit my writing and/or not write about that particular topic in the future.  

So here I go, off on another adventure.  I hope it's a fun one, and I hope that you'll enjoy it with me!  Either way, here goes nothing, as they say!  (Though I never really did understand that saying...it should be "here goes something", but whatever. LOL.)  

First a little background information, for those of you who don’t know. I used to be pretty involved in the virtual world called Second Life, which is basically like the real world, but online. You interact with other people via avatars, (my avatar’s name is Lilia Quinnell), and you can do pretty much anything you can in the real world, but so much more. One thing I really got into, which became a great love and passion of mine was storytelling.

I was a storyteller at a library in Second Life called the West of Ireland Library. Storytellers there would read stories in voice, and real people would come and listen to us. One of the best parts is that people would donate real money to us, which we in turn donated to a charity called Project Children, which was a charity that helped children in Ireland learn how to live together in peace despite differences.

Anyway, because of some problems I was having with some people in Second Life, as well as some personal problems I was having IRL (In Real Life), I decided to take a hiatus from Second Life. So I took a break for about a year and a half. During that time, the one thing I missed the most other than my friends in SL was storytelling. So about a month ago, I decided I was going to go back to Second Life, and try to become a storyteller once again.

Now my first go-round as a storyteller was wrought with problems. Some of them were my own fault, some of them were just life getting in the way. This time, I was determined, was going to be different. So I got back in touch with the storytellers from the West of Ireland Library, which had now become the Seanchai Library. Also different was that instead of benefitting just one charity, the Seanchai Library benefits a new charity every month (so awesome!).

The people in charge of the Library were understandably hesitant at letting me come back as a storyteller, because of all the problems that had occurred the first time around. I could hardly blame them. But I assured them, and myself, that this time would be different. And though this time around, there would be problems, how I handled them would be very different.

They scheduled me to take part in a group reading of scary stories to start out October, an event called BOOFest! I was very excited, as horror has always been one of my favorite genres, especially to tell aloud. So I started prepping.

Ugh...going through some really tough stuff right now. 2010 has officially been one of the worst (if not the worst) years of my life. I'm glad it's nearly over.

Friends keep disappearing off of my Facebook friends list. Is this happening to anyone else? Is it a Facebook glitch, or am I really losing my friends one by one? Perhaps I'm just being paranoid. I hope so.

I'm in desperate need of friends right now, and over the past year-and-a-half I seem to have lost my closest friends one by one. I guess it's a true test of friendship when you see who sticks around during the hard times. I feel so much sorrow over the friends that I have recently lost, because they were the ones I thought (and hoped) would be there through thick and thin. I'm tired of being the one that stands behind my friends, especially when they need it most, only to be dumped when the tables are turned and I'm the one in need.

Or, as the case is recently, having not stuck by me during my times of need, then betraying my trust and our friendship time and time again until I seriously question my sanity at having let such a so-called "friendship" go on for so long. I question my motives for having stuck it out this long. Do I stand beside this friend on principle, because that's what friends are supposed to do? Do I stand beside this friend because that's what Christ would do? Do I stand beside her out of habit, because I always have? Or are my motives selfish ones? Do I stand beside her because she's the only one that always comes back? Because she's the only one that will put up with me and all the baggage I come with?

If I stand by such a friend, what price will I pay? The consequences to myself, my family, and those around me could be dire. Is such a friend, or friendship, worth it? She has collected her 10 pieces of silver many times over; if I walk away now, will I be guilty of the same?

Do I give her my love, my blessing, my best wishes, and walk away? Do I do and say nothing, as she has done to me? Do I wait, bide my time, and react only when she acts? This last is what I have been doing. Waiting. It's been over a month now...she's had plenty of time to contact me, but has not. I decided a month ago that I would wait and see what her actions would be, and then I would decide what to do. Now that she has not acted one way or another, what do I do? Do I just wait here, in limbo?

I feel so lost, so alone; so friendless. Is this my own fault? Perhaps. Is it because the people of the world (or at least those whom I come in contact with) have lost the ability to be a true friend? I don't know. Either way, the result is the same; I wallow in my sorrow, minute after minute, hour after hour, day after day, week after week, month after month, and now, year after year, as the world, and all those I once called 'friend' pass me by.

Still decompressing from Burning Man...resting (I way over did it at BM), but I've been rather restless, so I decided to make some fabric flowers. I found a great tutorial for them here:

http://heyjenrenee.blogspot.com/2010/03/fabric-flower-tutorial.html

I'm making red and denim flowers right now, all made from cut-off pants. The denim is from a pair of jeans that I made into cutoff shorts, and the red flowers are from a jersey-knit pair of pajama pants that I cut off to make yoga-like pants. The flowers are turning out so cute! I've kinda done my own thing and sewed and arranged the flowers a bit differently than in the tutorial. I think that mine turned out super cute. I'll post pics when I'm done with them.

Next I'd like to try these rolled fabric flowers:

http://mysparkle.blogspot.com/2010/02/how-to-rolled-flowers.html

The rolled fabric flowers look a little more difficult, but they shouldn't be too hard to make. Though I might have to get out of bed to make the rolled flowers. If I don't, I'll end up with glue all over my bed (which is already filled with tiny fabric scraps). I don't know why, but all my life, if I'm creating artwork or crafts, I always make such a mess. Whether it be paint all over my body (I seriously don't know how it gets some places...lol), or glitter or beads littered throughout the house, I just can't help but make a mess when I'm creating something.

Ahh...well, I've been up all night, and it's now 5:30ish AM, and I'm drifting off to sleep. I'd be asleep already, but my thumb is killing me (part of the nail came off...I'll explain later). It's throbbing...*cries* I'm going to go wash it out good (it's totally infected), and bandage it up. Hopefully I can get into a dermatologist soon to see if there's anything they can do for me. I just hope that my thumb nail, or thumb itself isn't messed up. *sigh* It probably will be. The same thing has happened to my big toes, and they're all jacked up now (stupid podiatrists screwed up). Okay I'm going to stop thinking about it now, because focusing on it makes it hurt even worse.

Anyway, one of these days I'm going to write out my stories from Burning Man 2010. I have so much to write about! I took tons of pics too! I need to write down a bit of an outline of the stories, while they're still fresh in my memory. I don't think I'll have the time or effort to sit down and write it all out right now, because I'm going to be too busy packing to move.

Speaking of moving, we still don't know where we're moving to. We're desperately trying to find a rental that will accommodate our needs and fits within our budget. Easier said than done! I'm so sick of doing this...trying to find a place to live, never having anything stable, having to pack, unpack, etc.

This last move I didn't even unpack most of my boxes. I knew that we were going to be here less than a year. (We're living in the home of a missionary couple while they're serving their mission in California. They'll be home sometime at the beginning of October, so we've got to be out before then. Ugh I just hope we don't have to help put their house back together the way they had it. When their kids (all adults) move all of their things into the basement and extra bedrooms, they just sort of threw everything in with no rhyme or reason, they just stacked and stacked and it was so unorganized and awful. My mom and I sort of organized the basement so that I could set up a craft room (which I never finished...*sigh*). Ah well, c'est la vie. But in the meantime, we need to find a house! If anyone knows of a nice rental home, preferably in the Davis County area, that has at least 3 bedrooms (and an office or extra bedroom), for around $1k-$1300 a month, then let me know!

Alright, I keep falling asleep and typing gibberish. It's rather funny, actually. lol. Anyway, thanks for reading. I hope all is well with you.

Much Love,
-Ash

Wow...so my 10 year high school reunion is coming up. So crazy...I can't believe it's been 10 years! I feel old. lol. I was hesitant to attend the reunion. I didn't go to the 5 year reunion, but I heard that not many people did. With the 10 year reunion coming up I've been thinking so much about the things I went through in high school, and the things I've gone through since leaving high school. I've been through so very much since high school, but I've accomplished so little. I look at the social networking site pages of my peers and see what they're doing with their lives. So many people are living my dreams of having a spouse, a home, children, and a career. 10 years ago that's where I thought I'd be too! My how things change. I can only hope that the next 10 years will be better. I hope that by the time my 25th high school reunion comes up that I will have pictures posted of my family and I...a husband, children, a home, and hopefully I'll be a working artist, helping to support my family and doing what I love at the same time. Ahh...dreams. Some dreams come true; I hope mine will.

Anyway, I actually didn't go to BHS very long, only 1 semester; then I transferred to Salt Lake Community College. But I do know a lot of people from my class. I grew up with so many of them, and attended both elementary school and junior high with them. I've been hesitant about attending the reunion.
My school years were absolutely miserable for me. I was an outcast, always the one that got teased. I had few friends. I did terrible in school as far as grades went; I was bored because the things they taught weren’t anything new to me. I've always done much better learning on my own. I also got screwed by the public school system because of my disabilities; they never cared, they just brushed me aside. I fell through the cracks, and no one noticed. I had to stop going to school because of my back, and at first they had me on "home hospital" schooling, but that was a complete joke. It was back before the days where you could do schoolwork online. Once a week a teacher would come to my house and drop off a stack of homework to do. I tried to do the work at first, but I just couldn't do it. (This was back before I was diagnosed with ADD and medicated for it.) Usually I just put the homework all in a pile, never did it, and never turned it in.

Luckily I was able to get into SLCC when I was 16 or 17. I did so much better in college than I did in my previous schooling experiences. I absolutely loved it, but unfortunately traumas in my life forced me to drop out before I could complete my degree. The biggest problem was my back. At that point in time I refused to take narcotics to relieve the pain; I was too afraid of addiction, and rightly so. A lot of other things happened all at once, so I stopped going to school; figuring I'd return after things calmed down. Nine years later, I still haven't made it back to college. I long to go back. I yearn to complete what I started. I so want to be able to have a degree and work in the field I love (visual art).
Back to my reunion...I finally decided that I will attend the reunion. I bought my ticket for it today. I wish I had a reason to choose the option to buy 2 tickets, the ones for couples. But no, I had reason to only buy a single ticket. I'm crossing my fingers that for the next reunion, should I choose to attend, that I'll have reason to buy 2 tickets.

As I said, I've been hesitant to attend my high school reunion. I don't really know why I'm going, I just have the urge to. I even volunteered to be on the reunion committee (what was I thinking?!). They want me to put together a slide show of pictures of classmates from high school and pictures from the present. Sounds like a lot of work, but it might be fun. I just have to find a projector and a laptop to do it with, because I have neither. Maybe I want to see the people that were so mean to me, see that they're not better than me, and prove to them that I turned out great (or at least appear to have).

But really, though I've had a pretty miserable life during the past decade, I'm proud of how I turned out. Most people wouldn't have turned out so well if they'd gone through what I have. I've experienced more of life in the past 10 years than most people will in their entire lifetime. Having gone through so much has given me knowledge, wisdom, strength. It has taught me survival. It has taught me love, heartbreak, tragedy, and happiness. The strongest metals are forged in the hottest fires; the fires I've been through. I'll admit that I'm just about as screwed up as a person can get, but I've learned to love who I am. I still have problems with low self-esteem, but daily my confidence in myself increases. Maybe the reason I'm going to attend my reunion is so that I can prove to myself that I can do it, and that I can survive. Or…maybe…just maybe…I’ll meet some handsome classmate, we’ll fall in love, and live happily ever after…hahaha…well, a girl can dream!

Anyway, I'm rambling on and on (I tend to do that much too often), so I'll be done for now. Wish me luck that my reunion will go well!